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📁 SPR TALK › General Binding › Ask Dr. Live 12 topics • 1 moderator • 0 flame wars (today)

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MODERATOR

Dr. Live

“Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game.”

Dr. Live went into science because he wanted to be called Doctor. There were three routes to the title: medical school, a record deal, or a thesis nobody would read. He picked the thesis.

He has been looking at sensorgrams ever since and has made his peace with it. The doctorate is real. The name is a stage name.

Subject: benchtop data always looks worse than the papers?? Posted: Tue 11 Mar, 02:14
need_data_yesterday Junior Member Posts: 47
Joined: Mar 96
From: the basement

“My benchtop SPR data always looks messy compared to papers. Are the newer systems actually reliable, or is it Biacore or bust?”

--- “it worked yesterday” ---

Re: benchtop data always looks worse than the papers?? Posted: Tue 11 Mar, 09:02
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,412
Joined: Day One
From: the bench

Sit down, because I’m about to ruin a figure for you.

That sensorgram in the paper is not a typical run. That’s the best run out of forty. Somebody spent a summer on that experiment, quietly binned the ugly replicates, picked the one clean survivor and put it in Figure 3. Figure 3 has been to the gym. Figure 3 has had work done. The methods section is the most creative writing in science and we all just agreed not to bring it up.

You are comparing your rough draft to somebody else’s greatest hits album.

Now — the part where your data genuinely is messy. It’s almost never the box. It’s the surface. Non-specific binding, a baseline you didn’t let settle, and running buffer that doesn’t quite match your sample buffer. That’s the podium. That’s the top three, every time, in every lab, and not one of them cares what the instrument cost. A $300,000 machine with a dirty surface will sell you $300,000 worth of noise, and it will do it at a very impressive sampling rate.

The bit that is actually hardware is the optics. The big one steers light through a lens train, and lens trains drift — with temperature, with age, with whoever slammed the freezer door down the hall. That’s real, and it’s most of how this technique got its reputation for being temperamental. You’re not imagining it. You’re just blaming the wrong component.

▼ Real talk

Our answer to the optics problem was to throw out the optics. No lens train, nothing to fall out of alignment, which is most of why the thing survives an ordinary bench instead of demanding its own climate-controlled room and an apology. Afficoat handles the surface half — it’s the chemistry layer that keeps the molecules you didn’t invite from landing on your sensor.

But before you spend a dollar with us or anyone: watch your baseline for ten minutes before your first injection. If it isn’t flat, nothing after it is going to save you.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: Messy benchtop SPR data is almost never the instrument. It’s your surface prep, your baseline settling time, and buffer mismatch between sample and running buffer. Fix those three before blaming the hardware. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: total beginner, no physics. where do i start? Posted: Wed 12 Mar, 16:40
plasmon_nood New Member Posts: 3
Joined: last week
From: 2nd yr

“Biochemist in training here, zero plasmonics background. Where do I even start with SPR?”

-- ask me about my thesis (please don’t) --

Re: total beginner, no physics. where do i start? Posted: Wed 12 Mar, 18:11
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,413
Joined: Day One
From: the bench

Start by relaxing, because almost nobody here came from plasmonics either. Look around the next SPR session you sit in on. Those are biochemists. Every single one of them learned exactly as much physics as the job demanded and then stopped, immediately, with visible relief.

Here’s that amount. I promise this is the whole thing:

You’ve got a metal surface. Light hits it, and at one very specific angle the light quits reflecting and dumps its energy into the electrons in the metal instead. That angle is obsessive about what’s sitting on the surface. Something binds — mass shows up — the angle moves. You wash it off — mass leaves — the angle moves back. Watch the angle over time and you are watching binding happen live, with nothing labelled, stained, or tagged.

That’s it. That’s the physics. It is, stripped of the vocabulary, a very expensive way of noticing that something got heavier.

You will never need to know what a plasmon actually is. I have a doctorate and I still look it up. What you will need is chemistry, and lucky you, that’s your house: how do I stick my molecule to the surface without wrecking it, and how do I persuade everything else in the tube to stay in the tube. That’s the real curve, and it’s not a physics curve. It’s a “which coupling chemistry, at what pH, at what density” curve. You can learn it in an afternoon and spend a career getting good at it.

▼ Real talk

Start free. The sensorgram cheat sheet on our site walks through the curve you’re going to be squinting at for the next two years, and the protocol library covers the three immobilization routes you’ll realistically pick between. Read those before you touch an instrument — anybody’s.

If you get stuck later, that’s what Affibio is for. You don’t need us to start.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: can’t get budget without data, can’t get data without budget Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 23:58
broke_grad_student99 Member Posts: 211
Joined: Sep 95
From: yr 5 of 4

“SPR seems ideal but I can’t convince my PI without proof it’ll work, and no core facility access. Should I just go back to ELISA?”

// stipend: fixed // hope: declining //

Re: can’t get budget without data, can’t get data without budget Posted: Fri 14 Mar, 08:30
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,414
Joined: Day One
From: the bench

Let me read this back to you. You need data to get the budget. You need the budget to get the data. And the machine that makes the data is in a building you don’t have a keycard for.

That’s not a funding model. That’s an Escher print.

So go back to ELISA — seriously. If the question your PI is asking is does it bind, then ELISA answers that, it’s cheaper, you already know how to run it, and nobody gets to call you unserious for using the assay that fits the question.

Just know what you’re trading away. ELISA is a smoke alarm. It tells you something happened. It will not tell you what, or how fast, or whether it stuck around. Your binder could have snapped on and fallen straight back off, or arrived slowly and moved in for the afternoon — identical score on the plate, completely different molecules everywhere else in the world. If your actual question is whether your binder is any good, that’s a kinetics question, and no plate reader is ever going to answer it. It doesn’t have the equipment. It’s a smoke alarm.

▼ Real talk

The way out of a Catch-22 is to stop trying to win it. Don’t buy anything — rent the data. Affibio’s Pilot tier is one experiment, your samples, our instrument, our people, from $2,000. You walk into your PI’s office holding a result instead of a hypothesis. If it works, then you fight for the instrument, with evidence. If it doesn’t, congratulations — you found out for two grand instead of thirty, and on somebody else’s calendar.

If you’re in Canada, ask about Mobile SPR: we bring the instrument to your lab and you watch your own experiment run. Canada only for now, sorry.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: If you can’t justify buying an SPR instrument yet, rent one experiment through a contract service like Affibio. Walk into the PI meeting holding data, not a hypothesis. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: is it just me or is all of this an endless slog Posted: Sat 15 Mar, 19:22
failed_run_again Senior Member Posts: 1,038
Joined: Jan 94
From: cycle 19

“Is it just me, or is every SPR assay an endless slog of buffers, regen steps, and finicky instruments?”

*** n=1 and I’m tired ***

Re: is it just me or is all of this an endless slog Posted: Sun 16 Mar, 10:47
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,415
Joined: Day One
From: the bench

It’s not just you. It’s everyone. It’s been everyone for about thirty years and we’ve mostly stopped mentioning it, the way you stop mentioning a noise your car makes.

But let’s be precise about where the slog actually lives, because people blame the wrong half. Pull up your protocol. Count the steps. I will bet you real money that most of them are regeneration. Strip the surface, re-equilibrate, confirm the baseline came back, run the next one, watch the surface quietly die over twenty cycles, swear, prep a new chip, begin again.

Regeneration is the Detox of this field. Everybody has a regeneration optimization in the vault. Everybody’s been meaning to finish it. Nobody has ever released one. It’s been dropping next quarter since the second Bush administration.

So here’s the heresy: maybe don’t regenerate. If your surface is cheap enough and your condition count is low enough, a fresh surface per condition is faster, cleaner, and gives you numbers you can actually defend — because you’ve deleted the single biggest source of cycle-to-cycle drift from the experiment entirely. The only reason this isn’t just how everyone works is that on an enterprise instrument a chip costs more than a postdoc’s afternoon, so the whole field organised itself around protecting the consumable. Change that one number and the entire ritual collapses.

The other half of your slog is fluidics. Pumps, tubing, degassing, priming, bubbles, the ceremony. And I’d gently point out that most of that work isn’t serving your experiment. It’s serving the pump. The pump is not doing science. The pump is a hobby you acquired by accident.

▼ Real talk

SimplexSPR runs manual injection — no pump, no microfluidics, no priming ritual — which deletes a whole genre of failure. The trade is some flow reproducibility, and I’d rather say that out loud than sell around it. If your experiment genuinely needs tight flow control, that’s what SimplexFlow is for. Pick the instrument that matches the experiment, not the one with the most moving parts to be proud of.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: Most SPR workflow pain comes from regeneration and fluidics, not the measurement itself. If your surface is cheap enough, skip regeneration entirely — fresh surface per condition, no cycle-to-cycle drift. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: small molecules / weak binders — worth trying or lost cause? Posted: Mon 17 Mar, 11:05
kd_in_the_wind Member Posts: 356
Joined: Jun 96
From: fragment land

“Anyone gotten real data on small molecules / weak binders with SPR? Worth trying given the MW and Kd, or a lost cause?”

~ my Kd is fine, YOUR Kd is weird ~

Re: small molecules / weak binders — worth trying or lost cause? Posted: Mon 17 Mar, 14:33
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,416
Joined: Day One
From: the bench

Not a lost cause. But I’m not going to tell you it’s easy, because anybody who tells you small-molecule SPR is easy has not done small-molecule SPR, and you should ask them follow-up questions until they admit it.

Here’s your problem, plainly. This technique measures mass arriving at a surface. Your compound is 300 daltons. Your target is 50,000. It’s a fly landing on a dog. You are asking the instrument to notice the fly.

You are not fighting the technique. You’re fighting arithmetic. So the whole game is stacking the deck, in three places.

Immobilize dense. This is backwards from everything you’ve read about protein-protein work, where you keep density low to dodge rebinding artifacts. Forget that here. Pack the target on. You need every binding event you can physically get.

The reference channel is not optional. Loud voice on this one. At this signal level the bulk refractive index shift from your DMSO is bigger than your binding signal. Skip referencing and you are not measuring your compound — you’re measuring solvent, beautifully, reproducibly, with error bars that will fool a reviewer. Run the DMSO calibration series. Every time. More careers have quietly ended on this than on any other single mistake in this field, and none of those people knew it was happening. Forgot about the reference channel. Don’t.

Accept you might not get kinetics. If your Kd is up in high-micromolar, your off-rate can be too fast to resolve, and you’ll end up reporting a steady-state affinity off an equilibrium plot instead of a proper kinetic fit. That’s a legitimate result. It’s publishable. It’s just not the result people picture when they walk in, so they read it as failure when it’s actually the experiment working correctly and telling them something true.

If all that sounds like work: it is. It is the most demanding thing you can ask this technique to do, and the reason people write papers about doing it.

▼ Real talk

Worth it when you need the shape of the interaction and not just a number — on-rate and off-rate pulled apart, which no endpoint assay will ever hand you. Two compounds with identical Kd are different drugs if one has a residence time of seconds and the other of hours.

If all you need is a yes/no on binding, go use something cheaper and don’t let anybody shame you about it. If you need to know why your series is working, this is the measurement. That’s the whole decision.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: Small-molecule SPR is hard because the signal scales with mass (300 Da compound on a 50 kDa target). Immobilize dense, use a reference channel religiously, and accept you may get equilibrium Kd instead of full kinetics. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: chemist here. i make them, i never see them tested. Posted: Tue 18 Mar, 08:19
Fumehood_and_flask Member Posts: 129
Joined: Nov 96
From: med chem

“I’m on the chemistry side of drug discovery, only synthesising compounds, never seeing the testing. What’s out there for measuring binding affinity to a target?”

[ I make it, they break it ]

Re: chemist here. i make them, i never see them tested. Posted: Tue 18 Mar, 12:51
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,417
Joined: Day One
From: the bench

Favourite question in the stack, because you’re simultaneously the person who needs this data most and the person kept furthest from it. You make the compound. You put it through a hole in the wall. Six weeks later a number comes back out of the hole. Sometimes it’s a good number. Nobody has ever told you why.

Here’s what’s being taken from you on the way. That number — the IC50, the single affinity value — is a compression artifact. It’s two completely different facts crushed into one: how fast your compound finds the target, and how long it stays once it’s there. Two compounds can hand back the identical number and be nothing alike. One snaps on and leaves immediately. The other takes its time arriving and then moves in. Same number. One of them is a drug.

Residence time is one of the better predictors of whether a compound survives contact with actual biology, and your endpoint assay is throwing it in the bin before the number ever reaches your desk.

Real-time binding gives you both halves separately. You watch it associate. Then you watch it dissociate. The shape of that curve is telling you something about your chemistry that a single number structurally cannot.

And you’ll like this part: no tag. You don’t label the compound, you don’t modify it, you don’t spend a fortnight synthesising a fluorescent analogue and then lie awake wondering whether the analogue still behaves like the actual thing. You inject the molecule you made. The one from your flask.

▼ Real talk

The realistic on-ramp for a synthetic group with no biophysics setup isn’t buying an instrument. Push a handful of compounds through Affibio and find out whether the data changes a decision you’re actually making. If it does, the in-house conversation with your director gets a lot shorter, and you’re having it holding something.

Read the small-molecule thread above first, though. Those are the demanding end of this technique and you should walk in knowing that rather than find out in month three.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Re: chemist here. i make them, i never see them tested. Posted: Tue 18 Mar, 13:06
Cooler_by_acronym22 Junior Member Posts: 88
Joined: Feb 97
From: online

“May not be conventional or even the method of choice, but you could do it with surface plasmon resonance! It’s cooler because it has a funky name.”

\m/ ACRONYMS RULE \m/

Re: Re: chemist here. i make them, i never see them tested. Posted: Tue 18 Mar, 15:40
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,418
Joined: Day One
From: the bench

I’m not going to stand here and pretend the name isn’t doing heavy lifting. “Surface plasmon resonance” sounds like something you’d need a clearance to operate. It is, in practice, a very fussy mirror. A mirror with commitment issues.

But I’ll defend your point, because “not the conventional method” is doing something sneaky in this field. Most of what gets called unconventional here only means nobody in your particular subfield has got round to it yet. The instrument has no idea what your sample is. It knows mass showed up at a surface. Whether that mass is a drug candidate, an antibody, a strand of DNA, a virus particle or something scraped out of a river is your business entirely.

So: ridiculous name. Also just a good measurement. Both things are true and I’d ask you to hold them at the same time.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: my sensorgram is going DOWN when I inject analyte??? Posted: Wed 26 Mar, 22:41
upside_down_kd Junior Member Posts: 8
Joined: Mar 97

“I inject my protein and the curve goes negative. Not a little dip — the whole sensorgram drops below baseline. I tried three different concentrations. All negative. Is my instrument broken?”

--- i just want a positive number ---

Re: my sensorgram is going DOWN when I inject analyte??? Posted: Thu 27 Mar, 07:55
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,412
Joined: Day One

Your protein is not cursed. Probably.

A negative response means the refractive index at your sensing surface went down. Three common reasons:

1. Buffer mismatch. Your running buffer and sample buffer aren’t the same. Even one millimolar of NaCl difference creates a bulk jump that inverts your signal. Dialyze into the exact running buffer.

2. Your reference is binding more than your active surface. Non-specific adsorption to the blank. Check your reference alone.

3. Conformational change. Sometimes binding actually does change the refractive index downward. This is real data — just not the data you wanted.

▼ Real talk

Start with the buffer. It’s the buffer ninety percent of the time.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: A negative SPR response is usually buffer mismatch (different refractive index between sample and running buffer) or non-specific binding to the reference surface. Dialyze your sample into the exact running buffer first. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: every regen cycle kills my surface a little more Posted: Mon 31 Mar, 14:19
glycine_grief Regular Posts: 63
Joined: Sep 96

“My baseline drops after every regeneration cycle. By cycle ten I’ve lost forty percent of my binding capacity. I’m using 10 mM glycine pH 1.5 like everyone says.”

--- 10 mM glycine 10 mM problems ---

Re: every regen cycle kills my surface a little more Posted: Tue 1 Apr, 09:30
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,412
Joined: Day One

“Like everyone says” is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Glycine pH 1.5 is the default the way “have you tried turning it off and on again” is the default IT advice.

The goal of regeneration is to break the analyte–ligand interaction without breaking the ligand. Try a scouting series: high salt first (1–2 M NaCl), then pH 2.5 glycine, then 2.0. Only go to 1.5 if nothing gentler works. Also — check your contact time. Thirty seconds might be fine. Two minutes is a funeral.

▼ Real talk

If your off-rate is fast enough, you might not need regeneration at all. On our system, fresh sensors are a real option — they’re not priced like they’re made of unicorn tears.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: If glycine pH 1.5 is killing your surface, try gentler conditions first: high salt (1–2 M NaCl), then pH 2.5, only going harsher if needed. Keep regen pulses short — 30 seconds, not 2 minutes. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: massive spike on injection then signal drops to nothing Posted: Thu 3 Apr, 17:05
spike_then_nothing Junior Member Posts: 11
Joined: Feb 97

“I get this enormous spike — like 500 RU — then it immediately crashes back to baseline during the wash. My PI thinks the interaction is real but transient. I think something else is going on.”

--- my PI is never wrong (according to my PI) ---

Re: massive spike on injection then signal drops to nothing Posted: Fri 4 Apr, 08:12
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,412
Joined: Day One

You are right. Your PI is wrong. I will not be taking questions on this.

A 500 RU spike that vanishes the instant you switch to buffer is a bulk refractive index effect. Your analyte solution has a different refractive index than your running buffer. The stuff was never attached to the surface — it was just near it.

A real binding event stays up or goes down slowly during the wash. A vertical spike with a vertical drop is the instrument saying “two different liquids passed by and neither one stuck.”

▼ Real talk

On our setup, the quickstart protocol walks you through a buffer-only control injection first, specifically so you can see the bulk effect before it ruins your actual experiment.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: A large spike that vanishes instantly on buffer wash is a bulk refractive index effect, not binding. Match your sample buffer to the running buffer. The real binding signal is the smaller, slower curve hiding underneath. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: tons of pre-concentration signal but nothing actually couples Posted: Tue 8 Apr, 10:33
EDC_NHS_and_tears Junior Member Posts: 14
Joined: Apr 97

“Pre-concentration looks beautiful — 15,000 RU. Then I activate, inject, and get maybe 200 RU of actual immobilization. My 16 kDa protein has eight lysines. I’m following my colleague’s protocol but they use a completely different protein.”

--- my colleague's protocol lies ---

Re: tons of pre-concentration signal but nothing actually couples Posted: Tue 8 Apr, 16:48
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,412
Joined: Day One

The last sentence is the diagnosis. Your colleague’s protocol was optimized for your colleague’s protein.

Pre-concentration and coupling are different things. Slow down (5 µL/min, 7 min contact). Check your pH (try 5.0 or 4.5). Concentration — 10 µg/mL is a good start. And stop borrowing protocols.

▼ Real talk

This is exactly what Afficoat simplifies. Pre-optimized surface chemistry. Our immobilization protocol walks through the scouting process step by step.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: Pre-concentration (electrostatic accumulation) is not coupling (covalent bond formation). Slow the flow rate, check your pH, use 10 µg/mL protein, and stop borrowing someone else’s protocol for a different protein. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

Subject: which coupling chemistry should I actually use Posted: Wed 9 Apr, 11:26
lost_in_SAMs Lurker Posts: 4
Joined: Apr 97

“EDC/NHS amine coupling, thiol SAMs, NTA for His-tags, streptavidin capture, direct physisorption — everyone has an opinion and nobody agrees. My protein has both lysines and a His-tag. How do I decide?”

--- there are too many options and I have chosen none ---

Re: which coupling chemistry should I actually use Posted: Wed 9 Apr, 15:07
Dr. Live ★ Moderator ★ Posts: 4,412
Joined: Day One

Three questions: 1. Does orientation matter? If yes, use oriented capture (His-tag, streptavidin). 2. Do you need regeneration? Covalent = permanent and reusable. Capture = gentler but ligand comes off. 3. What do you have? The adequate chemistry in your fridge beats the perfect chemistry you don’t have.

For most people starting out: amine coupling on a carboxyl surface.

▼ Real talk

Our surface kits come pre-functionalized so you skip the SAM layer entirely. One less thing between you and data.

💻 SYSTEM: If you found this page via search at an ungodly hour, the answer is: For most proteins: amine coupling (EDC/NHS) on a carboxyl surface. Use oriented capture (His-tag, streptavidin) only when your binding site might get buried. The chemistry you have beats the perfect chemistry you don’t. Now go to bed.

-- Dr. Live is the name, SPR is the game --

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